As expected Major League Soccer shows a lack of spine.
by denz on Sep 20, 2010 3:19 PM MDT
Email
PrintYou have seen the video, either it was a move by Thierry Henry to showboat a bit, or a move to kick the ball out of reach and delay the restart of their match, but in the end it caused Kevin Hartman to lose at least 2-3 weeks of being able to play. Oh many of us knew that MLS wouldn't do the right thing, they wouldn't suspend their new favorite player, no way not with a big TV match coming this week against the Los Angeles Galaxy.
If you wondered if there were two different sets of rules in MLS, well today the league answered that question:
So no suspension, and a fine of $2,000. Really?
So this guy gets fined the guy who makes $5,000,000.00 a year gets fined $2,000 for taking out one of the leagues top keepers for several matches on a stupid away from action stunt. It TH14 played every of the 2700 regular season minutes this year he would make $1851.85 per minute, but we know he won't play close to that but the message it sends is clear. Would the message have been clear if they had said that TH14 couldn't play until Hartman could? Did they raise the fine knowing that the money wouldn't matter but they could show how "harsh" they were dealing with him, without actually suspending him?
If you are a superstar, if you are a player that "the Don" and the heads of MLS value then you can do whatever you want and expect nothing as punishment, this fine is less than a hand slap, it isn't even going to register with him.
Yet a week earlier a player did a stupid thing away from the run of play, the impact of Javier Morales stupid move was a smirk from the opposing player, but that was a $250 fine and a 1 card suspension. I am going to say that Morales deserved it, I had an interesting talk with a former player about it and while we both agree that the review system is very flawed. We both agreed it was a very stupid thing to do and it could have been worse, but for MLS to go back and take the action they did against him, and then for a player who in the act of showboating caused a top player for a playoff contending team to miss 3-4 weeks of action, and he gets a one minute fine.
We clearly have a league that believes that the rules are only applied when it doesn't impact their "greater vision". It is sad and it is stuff like this that clearly reminds me why I still believe that MLS needs to make a change in leadership. Rules and enforcement, should be universal, no exceptions because a player is a big name, no exceptions because a player has a big TV match coming up.
Nope MLS is a league that is making it clear that there are two rulebooks. It is a dark day for MLS, and I am sure this will not do anything to win me any allies in the New York offices of MLS/SUM, but the truth no matter how unpopular with some is still the truth and today MLS disappointed me in a very large way.
OFF MY SOAPBOX
34 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Intent vs Result
So it is interesting to question if TH14’s punishment should be less because he didn’t want to injure Hartman, I think the fact that an act of showboating, resulted in the reckless injury of a player and because the result was a player missing several matches that a suspension would be fair.
Go back to the stupid lifting of the knee by Javier Morales, meant to let Alonso know that he didn’t appreciate the tough foul just seconds before. It was intended to send a message, it wasn’t meant to hurt the player and the result was that it barely caused Alonso to smirk, but it was worthy enough for MLS to review and issue both a fine and a suspension.
After talking with a former player I get the review process, I still think it is very subjective in how it is used and it is clear that this decision by MLS to fine one of their biggest name players $2000 (which is a minutes worth of wages) was a clear move to make it look like punishment without suspending him. Sad in my opinion.
Here is your reason
this doesn’t happen if they actually suspend Henry, they don’t get their headlines, they don’t get their “dream match”, so they get what they want, but at what cost?
So far
When there have been numerous DPs on the field, games don’t turn out to be as good as they have been hyped up to be. Why is this?
because
the depth on most teams with multiple DP’s tends to be lacking in some positions, so the DP’s often cancel each other out and we are left with very average players trying to make the difference. In LA’s case it is clear that when the team concept fails (like for 75 minutes on Saturday night) then Landon has the skill to often pick the burden up himself and get results. For New York they have some real gaps on their team because so much is tied up into their DP’s they have Lindpre but their overall defense has only been good when Bouna has been good.
not really
As someone who has watched RBNY all year long, Mendes and Ream have been outstanding, with a few errors here and there. But it’s a good partnership in the center of defense. Albright has had a remarkable season as well, especially considering his age and previous injuries. The two positions where you might say the Red Bulls are lacking are 1) left back, where Miller has been error prone and 2) goalkeeper, though Bouna’s goals against is respectable. Richatds was a weak spot early in the year but I would argue that the presence of the new DPs, far from exposing his weaknesses, has made him a more dangerous player.
I get that RSL fans are proud of the fact that they won MLS Cup and have put together a great squad without DPs, but I don’t buy the idea that having DPs necessarily weakens the squad to the point that these teams cannot compete.
by Matthew Conroy on Sep 20, 2010 9:44 PM MDT up reply actions
I like Richards
There is no doubt that defenses have do deal with more threats now, and that has opened up the field for Dane and he has taken full advantage of it. I was a big fan of Tim for the first 1/3 of the season but in watching more and more of his matches I see the rookie mistakes of positioning and his play has dropped off (in my opinion). Albright being healthy is the key but his isn’t nearly as quick as he used to be, and with New York pushing high with their offensive weapons they have opened themselves up to counter attacks, what is scary is that the main game of LA.
Albright is good but nothing special, Richards is OK but again did nothing when he had to play with normal players, Bouna is crazy as he is either good or awful.
Definitely open to counterattacks
but every team has its weaknesses. Look it’s not as if you dominated New York for 90 minutes at Rio Tinto. I remember two balls being cleared off the line, though you had other chances as well. Will be interesting to see how you stack up when we play you out here. I really like RSL so I find some of the antipathy toward large market teams on here a little puzzling. You have the respect of nearly everyone who knows anything about MLS at this point.
by Matthew Conroy on Sep 20, 2010 10:25 PM MDT up reply actions
I have nothing against big market teams
I do have something against MLS allowing the rules to be changed mid season because some owners in big markets put pressure on them to allow them to things that give them a clear advantage. The original DP rule, the whole grandfathering of others, the change to multiple DP’s.
How many times has the NFL or MLB changed their roster rules in the middle of the season?
So while I have no problem with Red Bull, or AEG doing whatever they need or want to do within the rules, I do think that rules should not be changed midseason, and I do think that decisions should be based on both what is good for the growth of the league and what will maintain a fair and level playing field for teams.
Multiple DPs
This was a change in the new CBA – not mid-season.
by Matthew Conroy on Sep 21, 2010 7:55 AM MDT up reply actions
Actually it wasn't
It was after the CBA had been announced, the CBA actually says nothing about designated players. In this case of the mutliple DP’s it wasn’t midseason but it was after the season had started. First match was March 25th, the announcement of the new DP rule was just a week later.
OK a week later
Makes all the difference in the world. Rules the same for every club.
by Matthew Conroy on Sep 21, 2010 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions
It’s very difficult to outcrap the NHL’s review system for suspensions and fines but MLS seems to be up to the task!
Is it hockey season yet?
No seriously, is it?
Paul McCartney Can't Play Piano
Burgundy Wave: Nobody's favorite Rapids Blog! (Now on SBnation!)
Has the disciplinary committee ever given a retroactive Yellow?
Even once?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
no idea since they
don’t put those types of records online anywhere. but their own words tell you the story :
MLS executive vice president of competition Nelson Rodriguez said on Monday that, if the match referee sees the incident but does not act, as was the case on Thursday, then it is up to the committee to decide whether the incident satisfies certain conditions to sanction the player.
Firstly, the committee must be unanimous that the incident was a clear and unequivocal booking offense. Secondly, the action must be egregious enough that the committee feels it necessary to “act to protect the integrity of the game.”
“The committee deemed that the first condition was not met,” Rodriguez told MLSsoccer.com. “It was decided that the action was reckless enough as it resulted in an injury, so it had to be recognized with one of the largest fines the committee has handed out.”
I simply suggest they read the rule book from FIFA, page 27 which lists the offenses, nowhere does FIFA say that unsporting behavior is an offense to be dealt with via a fine, it says a yellow card. The official failed to issue one, so it falls on them to correct it. But they are choosing not to, and the reason is Friday Night, and that his the height of hypocrisy.
I think every MLS fans should refuse to watch the match as a protest and to say to MLS, play fair, play by the rules no matter what your name is and no matter who much you make.
Do they give any cards at all?
I don’t think Morales actually received an actual red card. He just received a punishment that matched what he would have gotten with a red card.
In this case, I think it may be fair to look at what TH14 is receiving as equivalent to a yellow.
I don’t think anyone can argue that TH14 had malicious intent with his actions. He was just goofing around after a goal. Conversely, I don’t think anyone can argue that Morales did not have malicious intent with his actions. It was retaliation and while it didn’t result in an injury, it’s still easily qualified for a red card (or at least the punishment associated with a red card).
Retroactive cards
I actually find the review process kinda funny, above are a couple quotes from Nelson Rodriguez, he states if the official sees the incident but doesn’t act then they have one set of reviews. I agree that what should have been done is to give TH14 the punishment that would have come with the second yellow, which would be at least a one match suspension. He had no intent but his actions were unsporting behavior and they ended up with an opposing player being injured.
I think Morales had intent to let Alonso know that he didn’t appreciated the studs to the ankle, had he intended to hurt him don’t you think he might have actually did more than just “graze” him with his knee? I think the punishment was correct as it was stupid to do, but I don’t believe for a second that Javier intended to hurt Alonso, if he had it would have been easy enough to do in that situation.
The committee has never issued a Yellow
Only Reds and Fines
Was TH14s play worthy of a Red or Not?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
it would have been a red
as his second yellow card in the match it would have resulted in a red card. If it was a bad enough incident for MLS to issue a $2000 fine then you would have to believe it was worthy of ejection. In the same match Brek Shea got a $750 fine and extra match added to his red card, for not leaving the pitch and arguing with the officials (unsporting behavior).
Just saying it looks bad for MLS, the Dallas Coach, Hartman’s lawywer and ussoccerplayers.com all think it was spineless of the officials and then MLS to not do the right thing.
A second yellow is not a straight red
Was it worthy of a straight Red or NOT?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Nope the rulebook says it would be a second yellow card
which is a red card, even MLS in their statement didn’t state they were looking for a straight red card offense but rather:
MLS executive vice president of competition Nelson Rodriguez said on Monday that, if the match referee sees the incident but does not act, as was the case on Thursday, then it is up to the committee to decide whether the incident satisfies certain conditions to sanction the player.
They admit that the official saw the offense but didn’t act and then they go on:
Firstly, the committee must be unanimous that the incident was a clear and unequivocal booking offense. Secondly, the action must be egregious enough that the committee feels it necessary to "act to protect the integrity of the game."
"The committee deemed that the first condition was not met," Rodriguez told MLSsoccer.com. "It was decided that the action was reckless enough as it resulted in an injury, so it had to be recognized with one of the largest fines the committee has handed out.
They determined that it wasn’t a bookable offense, but if that is the case then why would MLS then fine him $2,000? So when has the league fined anyone for a non-bookable offense? When have they fined someone $2,000 for “nothing”. See their own arguments simply don’t hold up under any level of scrutiny.
About a dozen times last year the league fined players for non-bookable offenses
As well as two coaches, 1 was Preki in their final regular season match last year.
Since the league does not give out yellows by review, and you agree it wasn’t worthy of a Red, what exactly is the conspiracy?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Then say that
If the league had come out and said, we only review “red card” offenses and this action while reckless, doesn’t constitute a red card offense it did warrant a fine.
They didn’t they said it must be a bookable offense (unsporting conduct is a bookable offense), and it must be egregious enough that they “act to protect the integrity of the game”.
They then say the first condition isn’t met, so they are saying an reckless post goal celebration isn’t a bookable offense. No mention of a red card vs. yellow card, simply not a bookable offense. But a player taking off their shirt is bookable as unsporting conduct. It isn’t a conspiracy, it never was it is the simply refusal to hold a player accountable for whatever reason. It is the simple fact that even the columnists at US Soccer Players thinks it should have resulted in a suspension, and it is the very simple fact that I have no doubt that if it were committed by Atiba Harris or hundreds of other players in the league that it would have gotten a suspension.
It isn’t a conspiracy because nothing is being hidden or covered up, MLS is rather up front about it. They refuse to acknowledge that the either clear case of unsporting conduct, or delaying the restart of a match (if he was kicking the ball away and off the pitch-as some claim), both are calls that could have and should have been made by the official on the pitch.
I think it was a bad no call during the match (but given the speed of play, I get that) and I think it was a bad review that may have been influenced by a big TV match. I am not alone in my thoughts on this one. I do think maybe the “severity” of the fine by MLS standards was a white wash to get around the suspension, but that is the limit of my conspiracy thinking.
It is funny that the vast majority of the MLS website staff agree it should have been carded
So almost everyone on the MLS editorial staff saw it very differently than did those on the Competition committee that reviewed it? Same play, same tape but two very different views, and since the Committee had to be unanimous I get why nothing much really happened.
let it die
Denz, let it die. It isn’t our (RSL) battle. Javi got rest and was injured anyway. We all know MLS has serious problems and caters to the large markets. I for one HAVE to watch the LA-RBNY game. I have to.
Oh well, what they goona doooo about another RSL repeat!?!?!?!?!?
Because right is right and wrong is wrong
This is a huge moral issue for the league, if the rules apply differently for some players or not at all for some it impacts every team and the overall integrity of the league. Do you believe that if the rules don’t matter for everyone and that MLS is willing to bend them for a midweek TV match, that the rules may not be bent when it comes to the playoffs?
I also think there are a number of fans who are willing to look the other way, or not pay attention to things like this. Which is their choice but I for one think things like this matter. How do we expect casual or new fans to believe in the sport and league if the rules don’t apply to the big name stars the same way they do to everyone else?
Hartman Intentionally Got in His Way
Players kick the ball in a second time after goals all the time in soccer, it’s very common. Hartman was being a sore loser and intentionally stood in front of Henry. Sure Henry was being stupid but so was Hartman. I’m fine with this slap on the wrist.
Win or lose, we will always be here for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Sep 21, 2010 9:45 AM MDT reply actions
really
I wondered how long until someone would blame Hartman. I very rarely see a player not involved in the play, make a 20 yard run into the box to put a ball back into the net that long after the play. I have never seen it when the keeper is clearly in a position to get the ball and put it back out to midfield to get the match restarted. I also have never seen it with another opposing player less than a yard away from the ball on one knee tying his shoe.
Sorry I just can’t blame Hartman for Henry’s mistake.
Hartman was not on one knee tying his shoe
He saw henry coming up to kick it again and intentionally stepped in front of it to prevent him from doing so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X-J07RSJ9U&feature=player_embedded#at=11
I have never seen a keeper do that before. Both of them were being stupid.
Win or lose, we will always be here for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Sep 21, 2010 4:59 PM MDT up reply actions
no there was another FC Dallas player
Who is also less than a yard away from the ball when it was kicked. So Henry with two opposing players within 2 yards of the ball thought it was going to be a good more to run from 15 yards out and kick the ball back into the net, sorry that is a classic unsporting behavior and should have been called. Don’t take my word, almost every editor on mlssoccer.com agrees, there are writers on ESPN and even a column on ussoccerplayers.com saying that it should have resulted in a suspension
It was unsporting behavior but there are degrees of unsporting behavior
I do not deny that Henry was being a jerk. But how “unsporting” is it really? Players often do wild choreographed celebrations after scoring that would never fly in other sports like NCAAF. Yet these choreographed celebrations are perfectly acceptable. Players used to take their shirts off all the time but now FIFA has banned that. However, FIFA has NOT banned kicking the ball a second time into the back of the net after a goal. I think maybe they should consider doing it, because it is a “dick” move, but it hasn’t been banned yet and is still very common. At that point, I don’t think it’s worthy of a suspension.
I’ve seen the mlssoccer.com articles but have you read the comments section on Soccer by Ives’ post on this? B/c it is much more evenly divided.
Win or lose, we will always be here for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Sep 21, 2010 9:15 PM MDT up reply actions
I am sure
I have no doubt that many people think nothing should be done to him, I guess I looked at it this way. It was reckless behavior to try to “celebrate” a goal that you didn’t score by kicking the ball back into or at the net with a player between you and the goal and another player in very close proximity.
If the standard is unless FIFA specifically bans a behavior it can’t be classified as unsporting, well then we are in real trouble. I mean Alecko picking up a can of Red Bull taking a swig and spitting it back out drew the ire of the league and got him in big trouble and nobody was hurt in that celebration. For me I have no problem with celebrations but when they become reckless and endanger (this one did) or end up hurting a player, well then it should have been a yellow card.
henry is out you got your way
Henry is out of the game this Friday, so justice served?
Justice served
Maybe the soccer gods served some justice but MLS didn’t. My point has never been to harm Henry, but rather to see that the rules are applied in a fair and just way by MLS.
Now I will laugh my ass off if MLS now knowing he will likely be out for a couple matches comes back today and issues a suspension. That would be the highest form of flattery for me and the thousands of others out there who know MLS did the wrong thing with this one.
MLS no Different from NBA
The MLS is just Like the NBA where the definition of the rules is determined by the name on the back of the jersey. High priced superstars get thier butts kissed by the league and the referees because they puts fans in the seats and people pay to see them play. The MLS couldn’t have made anymore blatantly obvious that they are giving Henry preferential treatment.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on RSL Soapbox
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
